Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by BigPete » February 6th, 2021, 10:10 am

dacolson wrote:
February 6th, 2021, 9:20 am
BigPete wrote:
February 6th, 2021, 5:28 am
Haha yes it does look cool.

Check this out, I'm still struggling to get this hole widened from 16/18mm to 20mm. A brand new bit, slowly with oil did absolutely nothing. Really at a loss how to get this drilled I guess as it's hardened now.

Here's the b@stard hole vs one that went ok.20210206_102604.jpg
20210206_102618.jpg

Here's also the handle, end drilled, tapped and finished with a countersunk washer.

20210206_102644.jpg
Your step bit is trashed at the width you are at. Dull. It’s done.

Here’s a tip to drill that hole you’ve already started once you get your hole saw. It will be hard to finish your existing hole since it’s larger than your pilot hole for the saw. Cut a hole with your hole saw in a piece of scrap. Then clamp or tack the scrap over the hole you’re trying to finish as a guide. It will make finishing that hole so much easier. Use your cutting oil a lot with the hole saw as well. Don’t put too much pressure on it while you cut.
Yep I'm with you, essentially use the scrap as a guide for the holesaw. The holesaw will be a while for delivery so will go onto other bits!



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by dacolson » February 6th, 2021, 10:24 am

BigPete wrote:
February 6th, 2021, 10:10 am
dacolson wrote:
February 6th, 2021, 9:20 am
Your step bit is trashed at the width you are at. Dull. It’s done.

Here’s a tip to drill that hole you’ve already started once you get your hole saw. It will be hard to finish your existing hole since it’s larger than your pilot hole for the saw. Cut a hole with your hole saw in a piece of scrap. Then clamp or tack the scrap over the hole you’re trying to finish as a guide. It will make finishing that hole so much easier. Use your cutting oil a lot with the hole saw as well. Don’t put too much pressure on it while you cut.
Yep I'm with you, essentially use the scrap as a guide for the holesaw. The holesaw will be a while for delivery so will go onto other bits!
[/quote]

What, no Amazon same day delivery across the pond?


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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by Dirtytires » February 6th, 2021, 11:33 am

I have found several key things over the years to help in drilling steel. First is a sharp, quality brand bit....this is not the time to save pennies. Once it gets dull, replace it. Second is lubricant. I use WD-40...little goes a long way. Third is to watch your bit temperature. The oil will help to cool it but allow time for it to cool off between multiple holes or cooling with compressed air will help to maintain its edge longer. Last, but most important, is to allow the bit to cut. Apply a moderate/heavy amount of pressure to your drill and maintain the lowest spin speed you can. Running it fast with light pressure just makes friction that heats it up your bit and destroys it. Because of this, you need a big, heavy duty electric drill as most clutches on battery drills will slip.



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by BigPete » February 7th, 2021, 3:26 am

dacolson wrote:
February 6th, 2021, 10:24 am
BigPete wrote:
February 6th, 2021, 10:10 am
dacolson wrote:
February 6th, 2021, 9:20 am
Your step bit is trashed at the width you are at. Dull. It’s done.

Here’s a tip to drill that hole you’ve already started once you get your hole saw. It will be hard to finish your existing hole since it’s larger than your pilot hole for the saw. Cut a hole with your hole saw in a piece of scrap. Then clamp or tack the scrap over the hole you’re trying to finish as a guide. It will make finishing that hole so much easier. Use your cutting oil a lot with the hole saw as well. Don’t put too much pressure on it while you cut.
Yep I'm with you, essentially use the scrap as a guide for the holesaw. The holesaw will be a while for delivery so will go onto other bits!
What, no Amazon same day delivery across the pond?
[/quote]

There is next-day but I'm too tight to pay way over the odds for a holesaw :D ordered a whole lotof cobalt tipped ones from Alibaba - downside is the delivery times.
Dirtytires wrote:
February 6th, 2021, 11:33 am
I have found several key things over the years to help in drilling steel. First is a sharp, quality brand bit....this is not the time to save pennies. Once it gets dull, replace it. Second is lubricant. I use WD-40...little goes a long way. Third is to watch your bit temperature. The oil will help to cool it but allow time for it to cool off between multiple holes or cooling with compressed air will help to maintain its edge longer. Last, but most important, is to allow the bit to cut. Apply a moderate/heavy amount of pressure to your drill and maintain the lowest spin speed you can. Running it fast with light pressure just makes friction that heats it up your bit and destroys it. Because of this, you need a big, heavy duty electric drill as most clutches on battery drills will slip.
I've got a good mains powered Makita SDS that has a lot torque at the expense of high speeds which should be ideal. Over in the US do you find the branded products are a better quality? (In my experience the bits and consumables here are all very similar with a different logo/brand and price)



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by BigPete » February 7th, 2021, 10:49 am

Managed to get my ember maker built today the thing is HEAVY!. Had hit and miss welds (porosity) not sure why as I didn't change the settings. Need to so some research why.
20210207_154514.jpg
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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by dacolson » February 7th, 2021, 11:50 am

BigPete wrote:Managed to get my ember maker built today the thing is HEAVY!. Had hit and miss welds (porosity) not sure why as I didn't change the settings. Need to so some research why.
Did you prep your steel - grind off the mill scale? Also, are you welding outside in the wind? Gas coverage can suffer if it’s windy.


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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by Dirtytires » February 7th, 2021, 11:58 am

Yes...the brand name abrasive/cutters are much better overall than the off-branded items. Seems the cheep stuff is built to be one-use so really isn’t worth buying as it has such a short lifespan.



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by SheffSmoker » February 7th, 2021, 12:03 pm

BigPete wrote:
February 7th, 2021, 10:49 am
Managed to get my ember maker built today the thing is HEAVY!. Had hit and miss welds (porosity) not sure why as I didn't change the settings. Need to so some research why.

20210207_154514.jpg
What's that stock, Pete - 3/4" bar? Probably needed to be much higher current than you used for the door frame, with an increase in wire feed speed to match.



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by mp4 » February 7th, 2021, 12:47 pm


BigPete wrote:Had hit and miss welds (porosity) not sure why as I didn't change the settings.
I've had issues similar and lately have noticed that changing the contact tip can make a big difference. I would never change them until the wire fuzed to the tip. Give that a shot...

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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by BigPete » February 7th, 2021, 1:33 pm

dacolson wrote:
February 7th, 2021, 11:50 am
BigPete wrote:Managed to get my ember maker built today the thing is HEAVY!. Had hit and miss welds (porosity) not sure why as I didn't change the settings. Need to so some research why.
Did you prep your steel - grind off the mill scale? Also, are you welding outside in the wind? Gas coverage can suffer if it’s windy.


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Na didn't grind off the mill scale as some of the welds took so figured I could get away with it. But yes I was outside and there was a few gusts come to think of it! I know sheffsmoker mentioned about wind before but I didn't think it would be so sensitive.
Dirtytires wrote:
February 7th, 2021, 11:58 am
Yes...the brand name abrasive/cutters are much better overall than the off-branded items. Seems the cheep stuff is built to be one-use so really isn’t worth buying as it has such a short lifespan.
Let's see how this next few go and you'll maybe convince me :D
SheffSmoker wrote:
February 7th, 2021, 12:03 pm
BigPete wrote:
February 7th, 2021, 10:49 am
Managed to get my ember maker built today the thing is HEAVY!. Had hit and miss welds (porosity) not sure why as I didn't change the settings. Need to so some research why.

20210207_154514.jpg
What's that stock, Pete - 3/4" bar? Probably needed to be much higher current than you used for the door frame, with an increase in wire feed speed to match.
That was mostly 20mm bar (some 16mm and 6mm plate), was running it around 150-160A
mp4 wrote:
February 7th, 2021, 12:47 pm
BigPete wrote:Had hit and miss welds (porosity) not sure why as I didn't change the settings.
I've had issues similar and lately have noticed that changing the contact tip can make a big difference. I would never change them until the wire fuzed to the tip. Give that a shot...

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk
I'll have a check, I hadn't noticed anything when I started but it could well have gotten worse throughout the day! Thanks for the suggestion



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by BigPete » February 15th, 2021, 1:17 pm

So it turns out the missus found some cone bits in Lidl (not sure if you have them in the US but it's a German discount store) so picked me up a pack. 3 HSS cones for £3.50. I thought what the hell, slow speed lots of pressure and lots of oil and low and behold it went through. It's sad but I've never been so happier with drilling a hole :ymparty:



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by Cole Leffert » February 15th, 2021, 3:51 pm

BigPete wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 1:17 pm
So it turns out the missus found some cone bits in Lidl (not sure if you have them in the US but it's a German discount store) so picked me up a pack. 3 HSS cones for £3.50. I thought what the hell, slow speed lots of pressure and lots of oil and low and behold it went through. It's sad but I've never been so happier with drilling a hole :ymparty:
Awesome! Glad it worked out!



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by SheffSmoker » February 16th, 2021, 6:42 am

BigPete wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 1:17 pm
So it turns out the missus found some cone bits in Lidl (not sure if you have them in the US but it's a German discount store) so picked me up a pack. 3 HSS cones for £3.50. I thought what the hell, slow speed lots of pressure and lots of oil and low and behold it went through. It's sad but I've never been so happier with drilling a hole :ymparty:
I have the same ones! I've found the pilot step is done after half a dozen holes, so now use a separate 3mm bit to get them started.



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by Dirtytires » February 16th, 2021, 11:53 am

Glad it worked out for you!!



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by BigPete » February 16th, 2021, 1:50 pm

So got a fire lit with doors on etc, strangely the top thermometer read 50degC and the bottom 30degC neither of which made sense as the fire was ripping. I put my probe into the middle of the cook chamber and it read better, the graph is over 1hr and I didn't add any new fuel, the spike at 125degC was me opening the FB door a little more. I suspect I may need some sort of baffle over the cook chamber entrance to diffuse the heat so it doesn't race straight up and out the chimney. It'll be a steep learning curve with different fire management but at least it should be one a once off relearning.
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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by Big T » February 16th, 2021, 7:45 pm

That's awesome! Do you have an air intake or are you just using the door to regulate the fire ?


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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by BigPete » February 17th, 2021, 2:10 am

Thanks! I was going to put an intake on the door but when I'd made it and felt the weight and snugness of the door I thought I'd just use the door to control air flow and save some extra unnecessary work. That said there is another way I can let air in but would be easier to explain with a video or more pictures.



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by BigPete » February 17th, 2021, 6:35 am




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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by dacolson » February 17th, 2021, 8:33 am

I'm guessing the purpose of that vent on the bottom right in the second vid is to allow heat out of the FB on the side into that outer cooking area? Interesting.
I think I'd put a vent in the FB door. A baffle plate isn't a bad idea either since you can scorch meat sitting right above the throat. A vent in the door and a damper on your stack are a must however. That's a vertical smoker and vents/dampers are super effective at controlling heat. Just like a UDS or a komodo-style cooker. The door lets too much air in and with your stack wide open you no restriction to create back pressure.


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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by BigPete » February 17th, 2021, 11:17 am

dacolson wrote:
February 17th, 2021, 8:33 am
I'm guessing the purpose of that vent on the bottom right in the second vid is to allow heat out of the FB on the side into that outer cooking area? Interesting.
I think I'd put a vent in the FB door. A baffle plate isn't a bad idea either since you can scorch meat sitting right above the throat. A vent in the door and a damper on your stack are a must however. That's a vertical smoker and vents/dampers are super effective at controlling heat. Just like a UDS or a komodo-style cooker. The door lets too much air in and with your stack wide open you no restriction to create back pressure.
The 2nd vent is so that when I build the BBQ/Reverse Flow its essentially the opening of the FB (the two bricks can be used to block off either exit of the FB depending on what I want to use).

I'd planned a chimney and damper for the vertical smoker just havent gotten around to getting it made yet :)

I was actually just watching the ChudsBBQ video on fire management last night and he was mentioning that if smoke is coming out of the FB door there could be too much back pressure? (I was getting this and found it hard to get a clean fire without it fairly open).

Its going to take a few times to get it dialed in but 100% the baffle is needed as the door was reading an average of 40degC and the probe 12 inches back was at 150degC.



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by SheffSmoker » February 17th, 2021, 11:57 am

Is it worth sanity checking the door probes by sticking them in boiling water, Pete? Sounds a massive difference, unless there's just a central vortex of hot air going straight up. :)



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by BigPete » February 17th, 2021, 12:24 pm

SheffSmoker wrote:
February 17th, 2021, 11:57 am
Is it worth sanity checking the door probes by sticking them in boiling water, Pete? Sounds a massive difference, unless there's just a central vortex of hot air going straight up. :)
Yep surprisingly I had tested them both in hot water before installing them so that only left me with the thought that the air is just rushing up and out the chimney (even though I closed it over with a brick as a test - however this caused the fire to burn dirty which would make sense)



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by dacolson » February 17th, 2021, 12:57 pm

BigPete wrote:
February 17th, 2021, 11:17 am
dacolson wrote:
February 17th, 2021, 8:33 am
I'm guessing the purpose of that vent on the bottom right in the second vid is to allow heat out of the FB on the side into that outer cooking area? Interesting.
I think I'd put a vent in the FB door. A baffle plate isn't a bad idea either since you can scorch meat sitting right above the throat. A vent in the door and a damper on your stack are a must however. That's a vertical smoker and vents/dampers are super effective at controlling heat. Just like a UDS or a komodo-style cooker. The door lets too much air in and with your stack wide open you no restriction to create back pressure.
The 2nd vent is so that when I build the BBQ/Reverse Flow its essentially the opening of the FB (the two bricks can be used to block off either exit of the FB depending on what I want to use).

I'd planned a chimney and damper for the vertical smoker just havent gotten around to getting it made yet :)

I was actually just watching the ChudsBBQ video on fire management last night and he was mentioning that if smoke is coming out of the FB door there could be too much back pressure? (I was getting this and found it hard to get a clean fire without it fairly open).

Its going to take a few times to get it dialed in but 100% the baffle is needed as the door was reading an average of 40degC and the probe 12 inches back was at 150degC.
A few thoughts here. First, fire size. A vertical smoker can be very efficient with a small fire, vents and dampers. If you are struggling to control heat with vents/dampers and you are getting bad smoke, your fire is too big. Smothering it results in bad smoke. You had what looked like a pretty big pile of charcoal and wood going in there. Keep a shovel and bucket handy to pull coals out. I run a big green egg all the time which is basically a smaller version of what you are running. I use a small basket of charcoal and a lump or two of smoke wood with the vents closed almost completely and the top damper almost closed. It runs clean smoke for hours at 225.

Also, You will struggle with a lot of wood in a vertical smoker b/c wood needs a lot of air. A smaller wood only fire will run out of coals quickly and you'll be adding often. Something to test if you are interested. Mostly charcoal with a couple fist sized chunks of wood for flavor will be a lot easier to control.

Chuds runs a couple different cookers - a standard offset and a direct fire cooker he calls the Chudbox. Both run differently than a vertical smoker like yours. The offset is controlled w/ the stack damper and fire size. If you damp it down too much, back pressure will cause smoke to come out at the doors. If you can't get your heat down without too much back pressure, you start to pull coals out. His Chudbox direct fire cooker runs hotter than a standard offset. 350+

Back pressure isn't a bad thing. It can be if you smother your fire but without some back pressure, you can't control your airflow and heat. It just heads up the the highest point and out the top in a vertical smoker. Even with a baffle plate.

My advice - put a vent in the door and a damper on the stack. Baffle plate is optional if you are looking to diffuse heat to the sides away from direct heating your meat. Use mostly charcoal or wood burned down to coals. Add wood chunks for flavor. I'd be interested if other folks feel differently. This is just my experience.


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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by BigPete » February 18th, 2021, 2:34 am

dacolson wrote:
February 17th, 2021, 12:57 pm
BigPete wrote:
February 17th, 2021, 11:17 am
dacolson wrote:
February 17th, 2021, 8:33 am
I'm guessing the purpose of that vent on the bottom right in the second vid is to allow heat out of the FB on the side into that outer cooking area? Interesting.
I think I'd put a vent in the FB door. A baffle plate isn't a bad idea either since you can scorch meat sitting right above the throat. A vent in the door and a damper on your stack are a must however. That's a vertical smoker and vents/dampers are super effective at controlling heat. Just like a UDS or a komodo-style cooker. The door lets too much air in and with your stack wide open you no restriction to create back pressure.
The 2nd vent is so that when I build the BBQ/Reverse Flow its essentially the opening of the FB (the two bricks can be used to block off either exit of the FB depending on what I want to use).

I'd planned a chimney and damper for the vertical smoker just havent gotten around to getting it made yet :)

I was actually just watching the ChudsBBQ video on fire management last night and he was mentioning that if smoke is coming out of the FB door there could be too much back pressure? (I was getting this and found it hard to get a clean fire without it fairly open).

Its going to take a few times to get it dialed in but 100% the baffle is needed as the door was reading an average of 40degC and the probe 12 inches back was at 150degC.
A few thoughts here. First, fire size. A vertical smoker can be very efficient with a small fire, vents and dampers. If you are struggling to control heat with vents/dampers and you are getting bad smoke, your fire is too big. Smothering it results in bad smoke. You had what looked like a pretty big pile of charcoal and wood going in there. Keep a shovel and bucket handy to pull coals out. I run a big green egg all the time which is basically a smaller version of what you are running. I use a small basket of charcoal and a lump or two of smoke wood with the vents closed almost completely and the top damper almost closed. It runs clean smoke for hours at 225.

Also, You will struggle with a lot of wood in a vertical smoker b/c wood needs a lot of air. A smaller wood only fire will run out of coals quickly and you'll be adding often. Something to test if you are interested. Mostly charcoal with a couple fist sized chunks of wood for flavor will be a lot easier to control.

Chuds runs a couple different cookers - a standard offset and a direct fire cooker he calls the Chudbox. Both run differently than a vertical smoker like yours. The offset is controlled w/ the stack damper and fire size. If you damp it down too much, back pressure will cause smoke to come out at the doors. If you can't get your heat down without too much back pressure, you start to pull coals out. His Chudbox direct fire cooker runs hotter than a standard offset. 350+

Back pressure isn't a bad thing. It can be if you smother your fire but without some back pressure, you can't control your airflow and heat. It just heads up the the highest point and out the top in a vertical smoker. Even with a baffle plate.

My advice - put a vent in the door and a damper on the stack. Baffle plate is optional if you are looking to diffuse heat to the sides away from direct heating your meat. Use mostly charcoal or wood burned down to coals. Add wood chunks for flavor. I'd be interested if other folks feel differently. This is just my experience.
Thanks Dave, yea all makes sense. The fire ended up way bigger than i'd expected as I was basing things on the door thermometers and I was also seasoning the inside so wanted it a bit hotter than a normal cook temp.

I'll build a small stack/damper and get that on, then see how the door is (its cross braced from the rear so a vent could end up being very small). On a side note, I may take the cap off the Brazilian chimney to see if it reduces the back pressure and saves me from having to put on the lip we discussed previously as thats my last resort :)



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Re: Brick Offset & Vertical Smoker with Outdoor Kitchen

Post by dacolson » February 18th, 2021, 8:16 am

Good idea. Change one thing at a time, right?


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