Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

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Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by AndrewPalmer71 » July 10th, 2017, 5:57 pm

Hey gang,

I have lurked around the forum for a while, but don't think I've ever formally introduced myself. I am Andrew Palmer; attorney by day, smoker/welding fanatic at all other times. This forum, the shop, and the calculators have been an invaluable resource in the build I have almost completed (see attached pics). This is my first build, so I started out small, but one day I will build a cool trailer rig like you guys. (Rodcrafter, Frank, Gizmo, etc).

Anyway, I have a question about adding a vertical smoker above my firebox. Seeing as I have side exhaust exiting above the firebox, would it be ok to enclose that exhaust in the vertical cabinet and have that cabinet act as the exhaust and a vertical smoker? I could add vents to my firebox, but don't really want to at this time.

Also, feel free to critique my build! Thanks gang!
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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by Big T » July 10th, 2017, 8:16 pm

Welcome aboard!! That's a nice looking rig you've got there. To answer your question, yes you could take the stack off and use the WC as a stack. You might need to make the opening from the CC to WC a little bit bigger than the stack opening. I'm curious as to how the vertical chamber is plumbed into the CC, I don't think I've seen one quite like that.


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by AndrewPalmer71 » July 10th, 2017, 8:39 pm

Thanks Big T! Glad to be a member of the absolute best smoker builder forum!

To resolve your curiosity, I actually connected the two sections with a 13" diameter pipe that I had laying around. I went this route instead of notching for a number of reasons. First, I'm a newbie fabricator and I didn't want to ruin my pipes trying to learn. (Large diameter steel pipe is hard to find in short lengths.. and I found mine for free). Second, the vertical chamber is 20" diameter and the horizontal is 24" diameter. I wasn't sure how the size difference would complicate notching. And lastly, I can easily find a damper for the round pipe. Next one I build I'll probably try notching just to learn a new skill!

I think I will go the direction of removing the exhaust and enlarging the cook chamber opening. I'll keep you posted on how it turns out, over in the Reverse Flow Smoker thread. Thanks again!



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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by ajfoxy » July 10th, 2017, 11:59 pm

Looks good. And welcome to the crew.


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by Pete Mazz » July 11th, 2017, 4:43 am

Welcome!


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by Rodcrafter » July 11th, 2017, 6:54 am

Welcome to the crew!
If you don't mind me butting in. I would like to ask, are you going to use the top of the FB as the floor of the vertical cabinet? Are you going to add an exhaust to the vertical you already have? Did you include the volume of that same vertical when calculating the size of the FB and vents?
That will do for now.
Thanks


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by AndrewPalmer71 » July 11th, 2017, 11:15 am

Rodcrafter,

Thanks for these questions, seriously. Because I had searched the forums for the answer to these but could not find a definite answer. And I chose not to ask directly because I didn't know how to word it.. I guess in hindsight, the only dumb question is one not answered. So here goes..

I did include the volume of the existing vertical cabinet into my calculations for FB size and vents. Was this proper? I seem to remember coming across a discussion that mentioned you shouldn't factor in the volume of a vertical cabinet.. but I may be mistaken. Since I couldn't find the answer, I was prepared to reduce the dimensions of my firebox if I needed to.

The vertical cabinet that already exists will have an exhaust vent. On top. The design I was going for was the Yoder Durango. The only difference is that I will be able to completely close off the existing vertical smoke chamber and use my horizontal only, in reverse flow (hence the exhaust exiting above the firebox).

The exhaust above the firebox will also be able to be completely closed off for when I operate the rig as a traditional offset (like the Durango).

If I add the horizontal cabinet above the firebox, I would use the top of the firebox as the floor so that I could use the cabinet as a warming cabinet when I am operating the rig as a traditional offset.

I was hoping that you, Frank, and the other experts would chime in eventually. Lol. Thanks bud!


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by AndrewPalmer71 » July 11th, 2017, 11:20 am

Right now, when I factor in the volume of my combined horizontal and vertical chamber, my FB is right in the sweet spot @106%.

However, when I factor in only the size of my horizontal chamber, my fb is insanely oversized, 140% +, I think.

Thus, in order to get the thing to function well in reverse flow only mode, I'm going to have to modify the fb in some sort of way, so that it is capable of adequately fueling the larger offset and the smaller reverse flow. I haven't quite figured that out yet. Any suggestions?


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by temurf » July 11th, 2017, 6:37 pm

:welcome:

I made the same mistake of adding the volume of the vertical cabinet to my calculations and ended up with an oversized firebox.

I solved the problem by adding some insulation to the inside of the FB.

I also added an opening with a damper between the vert and the FB.


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by Rodcrafter » July 12th, 2017, 7:02 am

AndrewPalmer71 wrote:Rodcrafter,

Thanks for these questions, seriously. Because I had searched the forums for the answer to these but could not find a definite answer. And I chose not to ask directly because I didn't know how to word it.. I guess in hindsight, the only dumb question is one not answered. So here goes..

I did include the volume of the existing vertical cabinet into my calculations for FB size and vents. Was this proper? I seem to remember coming across a discussion that mentioned you shouldn't factor in the volume of a vertical cabinet.. but I may be mistaken. Since I couldn't find the answer, I was prepared to reduce the dimensions of my firebox if I needed to.

The vertical cabinet that already exists will have an exhaust vent. On top. The design I was going for was the Yoder Durango. The only difference is that I will be able to completely close off the existing vertical smoke chamber and use my horizontal only, in reverse flow (hence the exhaust exiting above the firebox).

The exhaust above the firebox will also be able to be completely closed off for when I operate the rig as a traditional offset (like the Durango).

If I add the horizontal cabinet above the firebox, I would use the top of the firebox as the floor so that I could use the cabinet as a warming cabinet when I am operating the rig as a traditional offset.

I was hoping that you, Frank, and the other experts would chime in eventually. Lol. Thanks bud!


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1. When the vertical cabinet is NOT over the FB you do need to include the volume to get the correct size FB. You did great!
2. I like that you can stop the flow through the VC, you may want to also make an adjustable baffle for it so when it is in use, it doesn't get more than it's share.
3. What I did on mine for when the VC is not in use I made an adjustable damper for the FB throat. I have a stack on all 3 of my CC(s), and I can run 3 very different temps with this larger FB. I don't have the exhaust from my CC going into the VC above the FB. I do have an opening through the top of the FB into the above VC, and a stack on it. But on mine I have an 2 inch layer of 2000* insulation then a second plate for the bottom of the VC. The opening is an adjustable 6x6 in opening. If you don't insulate and you don't have to you may want to put some air inlets at the bottom of that VC. It will get hotter than you may want for just warming.

I hope this does more good than harm. Oh and for the over sized FB when not needed you can burn a smaller fire and vent what you don't need when you have options.

jm2cw


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by AndrewPalmer71 » July 12th, 2017, 9:41 am

Thanks RC. I think I am going forward with adding at least a small vent, 4x4 maybe, on the top of the firebox, so I can fine tune things.

Can you send me a pic of your adjustable firebox damper or direct me to a thread where it was discussed? I seem to remember coming across a discussion of your build in the older threads.

Right now I'm still in the procurement phase for materials for the vertical chamber I'm adding over the firebox.
I'll keep everyone updated on the progress.




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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by Rodcrafter » July 12th, 2017, 2:26 pm

I don't have a picture of the darn thing finished. And now the crossover tube for the GF covers it. I will try to get one next time I mess with it.


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by AndrewPalmer71 » July 12th, 2017, 7:26 pm

Rodcrafter wrote:
AndrewPalmer71 wrote:Rodcrafter,

Thanks for these questions, seriously. Because I had searched the forums for the answer to these but could not find a definite answer. And I chose not to ask directly because I didn't know how to word it.. I guess in hindsight, the only dumb question is one not answered. So here goes..

I did include the volume of the existing vertical cabinet into my calculations for FB size and vents. Was this proper? I seem to remember coming across a discussion that mentioned you shouldn't factor in the volume of a vertical cabinet.. but I may be mistaken. Since I couldn't find the answer, I was prepared to reduce the dimensions of my firebox if I needed to.

The vertical cabinet that already exists will have an exhaust vent. On top. The design I was going for was the Yoder Durango. The only difference is that I will be able to completely close off the existing vertical smoke chamber and use my horizontal only, in reverse flow (hence the exhaust exiting above the firebox).

The exhaust above the firebox will also be able to be completely closed off for when I operate the rig as a traditional offset (like the Durango).

If I add the horizontal cabinet above the firebox, I would use the top of the firebox as the floor so that I could use the cabinet as a warming cabinet when I am operating the rig as a traditional offset.

I was hoping that you, Frank, and the other experts would chime in eventually. Lol. Thanks bud!


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1. When the vertical cabinet is NOT over the FB you do need to include the volume to get the correct size FB. You did great!
2. I like that you can stop the flow through the VC, you may want to also make an adjustable baffle for it so when it is in use, it doesn't get more than it's share.
3. What I did on mine for when the VC is not in use I made an adjustable damper for the FB throat. I have a stack on all 3 of my CC(s), and I can run 3 very different temps with this larger FB. I don't have the exhaust from my CC going into the VC above the FB. I do have an opening through the top of the FB into the above VC, and a stack on it. But on mine I have an 2 inch layer of 2000* insulation then a second plate for the bottom of the VC. The opening is an adjustable 6x6 in opening. If you don't insulate and you don't have to you may want to put some air inlets at the bottom of that VC. It will get hotter than you may want for just warming.

I hope this does more good than harm. Oh and for the over sized FB when not needed you can burn a smaller fire and vent what you don't need when you have options.

jm2cw
RC, do you think it is possible to have this type of smoker operate as a reverse flow, utilizing the vertical chamber? I imagine it would be damn near impossible to get even temps between the two chambers.


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by Rodcrafter » July 13th, 2017, 5:35 pm

You would be surprised but it can run the same temperature in all three or I can get 100* different in the 2 left of the FB and the VC above the FB cold as the ambient temperature outside or control it GF or stick burner and run any cooking temperature. It sounds like bragging, and yes it is. But I got it from this site and the folks I have met over the years.


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by AndrewPalmer71 » August 31st, 2017, 12:06 pm

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Last edited by AndrewPalmer71 on August 31st, 2017, 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by AndrewPalmer71 » November 5th, 2017, 1:52 pm

Added a bigol Vertical chamber to the smoker this weekend. Image


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by Big T » November 5th, 2017, 8:10 pm

Heck yeah!! :beer:


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by Squiggle » November 17th, 2017, 8:49 pm

Very nice work dude, well done! :kewl:

My old fridge smoker(basically a vertical) had the stack coming out the side & it used to work really well, great flavour. :wsm:


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by ajfoxy » November 18th, 2017, 5:28 pm

Don't turn the fan on with the stack up... :D


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by AndrewPalmer71 » November 18th, 2017, 5:39 pm

ajfoxy wrote:Don't turn the fan on with the stack up... :D
ImageImage


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by Rodcrafter » November 26th, 2017, 9:16 pm

Poor little tires


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by AndrewPalmer71 » December 4th, 2017, 9:49 pm

Rodcrafter wrote:Poor little tires


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Lol. RC, I am converting my utility trailer into a smoker trailer... but I agree. those tires have dang near had it.


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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by Rodcrafter » December 5th, 2017, 7:14 am

I fully understand, When I first put mine on a trailer it was an one axle,3500# cap. and it weighed 3850# so the axle was in no way going to survive when I changed my FB out to do what you just did. Of course I used 1/2" plate for the FB and now the rig weighs over 5'000#. So now it has two axles and it still screams a little when turning sharp. lol


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Re: RE: Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by AndrewPalmer71 » December 17th, 2017, 2:42 pm

Rodcrafter wrote:I fully understand, When I first put mine on a trailer it was an one axle,3500# cap. and it weighed 3850# so the axle was in no way going to survive when I changed my FB out to do what you just did. Of course I used 1/2" plate for the FB and now the rig weighs over 5'000#. So now it has two axles and it still screams a little when turning sharp. lol
Added some rectangle tubing to the utility trailer and flipped the springs to give more height. ImageImage

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Re: Reverse flow hybrid smoker: vertical smoking chamber question.

Post by Big T » December 17th, 2017, 3:30 pm

:LG:


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