250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

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PoPs54
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250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby PoPs54 » August 20th, 2011, 11:44 am

OK folks, about to start my first smoker build. I have the propane tank and a very skilled fabricator friend that is helping me (his first smoker build also). I am building a reverse draft smoker. My tank is a 250 gallon propane tank that is made out of 1/4" material. I want to use the tank for both my fire box and cooking area. I think I have seen information somewhere on calculating the drop for the offset on the fire box. If someone could help me with that it would be very much appreciated. As far as the rest of the calculations, I have come up with the following, the tank is roughly 30" dia. by 90" long. If I make the cook area 30" X 66", and the fire box 30" X 24", I think that should work for the correct sizing. As for the smoke stack, I am thinking 6" X 30". The outside intake for the fire box should be 16" X 3" or 9" dia. I am not sure I understand the dimensions for the intake. Is it considering the fact that you will be opening the mechanism and allowing only as much as 50% of that area, or do you adjust overall size so you have 100% of that area open? Lots of dimensions here and I am not sure they are correct. There are probably lots more I need, but this will be a good start. I sure will appreciate any help and advice you can give me.



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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby Frank_Cox » August 20th, 2011, 5:30 pm

I'm not on my compy yet... I will be on later tonight and I will help ya out.

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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby Tom_Heath » August 20th, 2011, 9:33 pm

Hi Pops,

I am not 100% sure on this since I have not personally built a propane tank rig, but I believe you can come pretty close if you build the firebox 1/3 the size of the cook chamber.

I'm not even gonna try and run your numbers since I have worked way to many hours in the last two days to even see straight. If I manage to not get called in over night I will look at them in the AM.


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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby Tom_Heath » August 21st, 2011, 12:18 pm

By the numbers, you are pretty close for your firebox size compared to the cook chamber.

I was going to try and give you an idea for how much offset you needed for the firebox but it seems that I have a bad link to my circle calc that I use.

What I did on my RF round tanks, was find the area of the football shaped piece between the two tanks and make the dim match the area needed between the fire and the food.

There is no problems if you make the fire to food opening a little bit bigger then actually needed and in some cases it can even help out if you have it set up as a damper.
Personally I don't care to get the face full of smoke every time I have to get in the rig. So I like to have a damper that I can close off if I want to. One or two things I dont care, but when I have to move a ton of stuff I hate the smoke in the face.

Its also to have the RF plate gap a little large and run an adjustable damper there as well.

For your question about the air intake.

If it said 9", then you would want one 9" hole cut clear with a cover that could slide over that opening.
For a 9" opening, I would use two 10" butterfly dampers.

You can use any number or shape of openings so long as you give it the recommended area for air intake.
Here is a less then perfect vent on one of my smokers. This vent is about 7 or 8 inchs and the rig is 42" for the food and 22 I think it was for the fire.
Image


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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby PoPs54 » August 21st, 2011, 5:36 pm

Frank, thanks for the reply and I look forward to your input.

Smoker Tom, thanks for the good information. I also like the idea of a damper between fire and food but never thought about the added benefit of cutting the flow of smoke off while having the door open - great idea. I am hoping for some accurate figures on the firebox drop, calculations on that sort of thing are not my strong point (must have slept through all those classes). I am still a little confused about the air inlet to the firebox. If the calculator says I need 16"X3" or 9" dia. opening, that means that if wide open, there needs to be an area 16"X3" or 9"dia. for flow which would mean if I had dampers on the openings that would only allow 50% of the area to be open I would need to cut the opening double the size as in 16"X6" or as you said for the butterfly type 2 at 9" dia.or 10"dia. I hope I am making sense with my statements, I think I may be confusing myself. Look forward to hearing from you.



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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby Tom_Heath » August 21st, 2011, 10:14 pm

Your right on the money in your thoughts about the air intakes.

What ever the numbers are, thats what you need when they are wide open.

I will get with Frank and figure out what has happened with the calc we were using.
If we have to we can work the formula the old way.

I'm am gonna make a wild guess here and say that I bet the firebox will overlap the food box by about 14 to 16 inchs. DONT use that number yet, its just a guess.

The best way that I can think of for the damper between the food and the fire would be to place a rod from front to back across the long point of the football shaped piece.

The back side can simply be a nut just larger then the rod, so the rod sits in it like a socket.
The front side, the rod is just thru a hole in the front side of the intersecting point of the two chambers.
Then have a locking collar with set screws to the rod on the inside of the tank.

Just something to think about.


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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby Tom_Heath » August 21st, 2011, 11:14 pm

Found it !!!!!!!!! HA...

It seems that the calc belongs to a certian person and they had it hosted on a site and someone stole it. They are working on getting it back to its original location..

Here is a screen shot of your numbers.

I used a radius of 15
and segment height is 5"

Now what this means is this area is only half the football. Double it and make the opening 10" from the inside top of the firebox to the inside bottom of the food chamber.
This is if you are using flat ends. If you cut the firebox into the helical end of the propane tank the 10" can be less due to radiant heat. Franks knows well the details of this.
I assume you will have flat ends since you are cutting both from one chunk of pipe.

Image


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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby Frank_Cox » August 22nd, 2011, 6:25 pm

hi pops!
looks like smoker tom is gettin ya squared away :)
the best way to to attach fire box to cookchamber in my opinion is always with 2 flat plates if you can live with the looks of that type of config. no problem with the other way really just makes it easier.



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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby Tom_Heath » August 22nd, 2011, 10:08 pm

Here is a couple shots of the way I did my last build, its not a propane tank and its much smaller then what you are working on but the idea is still the same.

Image
Image


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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby PoPs54 » August 23rd, 2011, 9:23 pm

I have got questions but will have to wait till tomorrow. It has been a full schedule tonight.



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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby Frank_Cox » August 23rd, 2011, 9:27 pm

sounds good. we'll be here :mrgreen:



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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby PoPs54 » August 25th, 2011, 7:51 pm

Ok, back after a few interruptions. I think I understand the 10" spacing from the inside top of the firebox to the inside bottom of the food chamber. The firebox will be cut off the end of the tank, so the surface for the attachment of the firebox to the cook chamber will both be flat. I will have the domed end still on for the fire box, which will become my door to the firebox on the very end. So I am not sure I understand the statement about less than 10" and radiant heat with a domed end. Please explain more, or should I not worry about it and just use the 10" drop regardless?

Frank, your statement about two pieces of plate, are you talking about just tacking the firebox to the cooking chamber and then just cutting a piece for the top (closing in the cook chamber) and then a piece for the bottom (closing in the firebox)?



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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby PoPs54 » August 25th, 2011, 8:13 pm

One more thing real quick. Am I going to be disappointed with the 1/4" thickness for the firebox made from the tank instead of a 1/2" made out of plate?



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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby Tom_Heath » August 25th, 2011, 9:32 pm

I think since you have the tank end, that it will work fine being 1/4" 1/2" would no doubt hold more radiant heat but I don't think it will make that much difference.

On the firebox question about the location and the helical end.

Many times guys will actually insert the firebox into the food chamber. Making them looked as if they were stacked.
This is not the case for you since you are using flat ends. The helical door may present a challenge when it comes time for the air intake. But have no fear, if one of us needs to dream up a new and improved way to make up your intakes, I'm sure we can get it figured out.

And the part where you have a good fab guy will help also since you can tell him and also show him what you need. He may be able to come up with a new idea that would work just as well. That can easily be worked out down the road. I used to have a smoker that had a sliding vent, it worked off of the radius of the tank. I am still not sure that I liked it and I have always wanted to spend a little time with some crazy designs for vents.

Most amazing smoker designs come to us in our sleep. Or at least a good day dream.


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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby PoPs54 » April 7th, 2012, 12:50 pm

Well it's hard to believe it was August of last year when I started putting together the plans for this build. Progress has been very slow, but there has been progress made. I will start to document with pictures as soon as I figure it all out. Saw on one post where it talked about posting pics directly from the iPhone. If any one has details on that, please step in here and help. If of I will just go the way of Photobucket.



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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby PoPs54 » April 7th, 2012, 2:20 pm

Well, here goes with a picture attempt.

Here is my first of many to come photo opportunities with my new smoker.
http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... c59a00.jpg



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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby PoPs54 » April 7th, 2012, 2:24 pm

Well, looks like this attempt bombed. The link posted, but not the picture :oopssign:



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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby Gizmo » April 7th, 2012, 7:03 pm

Pops if you're using Photobucket then select the picture you want once it's in photobucket using the mouse and left button and the little box by the thumbnail of the photo to put a checkmark in the box.
Scroll down to "Action" or something like that and left click on Generate image code.
Another small window will come up and look at the lower box to see a link that starts with [IMG]...etc. - left click on that and that window will briefly turn to the word "copied".
Go directly back to this thread and right click in the test box and select paste.
The whole [IMG] code strip should appear in there and your picture will come through on the link.
You can also scroll down just before you post it and select preview - if your pic shows up you're golden... :)


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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby PoPs54 » April 9th, 2012, 8:13 pm

Image

Hey Rick, look here, I'm golden.

There is the first of hopefully many more to come. Probably not hard to see this is my first photo opp with my new tank.



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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby Gizmo » April 9th, 2012, 11:33 pm

Ahhhh - a man and his TANK - it warms the heart ... :)


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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby The Czar » April 10th, 2012, 6:38 am

LOL....Glad to see you got your photo posted....I like how everyone rides the tank.... =))


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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby PoPs54 » April 14th, 2012, 9:03 am

Image
Well, here is a CAD drawing of what He, She, It??? will look like on completion. Maybe.

...and a few pics of the construction of the base.
Image
Image
Image
Image

Here the tank and base meet each other for the first time. I think it was love at first sight
Image
Image

Can anyone guess what happened here? That's right, the firebox just fell off the end of the tank.
Image

Just so things don't get too boring, here are some ribs about to go on my current smoker, an Oklahoma Joe that came from Academy Sports. Its not a bad little smoker. but just not enough room on it when you have to account for the area right in front of the of the firebox opening being too hot. I guess the next project could be to install a deflector shield over the opening
Image
Image
Image

Here my friend Garrett is cutting out the door.
Image

And the door out and the stack in.
Image

Tell me what you guys think of my revolutionary new smoker design, the SSS or more commonly know as the Side Stack Smoker?
Image

OK, everybody wake up, that's all for now. more to come in a few days.



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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby Gizmo » April 14th, 2012, 11:38 am

...you had me there for a second...=))

Looks like it's coming along ... :)


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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby PoPs54 » April 14th, 2012, 1:38 pm

Thanks Rick, I wish the progress was a lot further along. I'm ready to smoke on it.



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Re: 250 gallon first build-HELP PLEASE!

Postby maccas66 » April 14th, 2012, 5:48 pm

Pop by the look of it you don`t need no help! :kewl:


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